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Silver and Gold legal tender legislative draft for 2024 has been released!

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Patrick Holland
(@patholland)
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Senator Eigel has released the draft for the new silver and gold as legal tender for the 2024 legislative season. You can view this legislation in it's entirety here. Let's start the discussion.


   
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ThomasJ
(@thomasj38)
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@patholland

My hat's off to Senator Eigel. This is a mammoth undertaking for such a short time.

30.266: It is stated "gold and silver coinage AND specie..." in the opening of this section. To be grammatically correct, it should read "gold and silver coinage, and specie...". It would then mean gold and silver in the form of a coin would be acceptable leaving it open to further definition as it is further down in this bill. Then, it states "specie" which is an ambiguous term in itself that is more defined by the preceding "gold and silver coinage" and leaves this one line statement much less ambiguous and redundant rather than leaving the definition of acceptability open to interpretation meaning other forms beyond that of like kind. The problem with the use of the word specie is it's not non-ambiguous by itself and can just as well preclude any other form of bullion for use as currency and not necessarily leave the interpretation open to inclusion of other forms.

I assume that the word specie is being used as an unspoken attempt to include other forms outside of coinage such as Goldbacks, smaller gold and silver bars, and such. The problem is that this word means coinage of like kind and the rest are not defined as coins.

resource of definition: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/specie

143.121, sub-section 3, paragraph 14: This removes any capital gains tax on pacifically silver and gold from State income tax liability.

I assume the underlined text is that of added wording to the States Constitution and the redacted lines of text are to be removed and replaced with the underlined text?

408.010, paragraph 2: This is where we can expect to get the opposition's biggest argument of how the state will protect itself from fraudulent coins. Scales can e obtained from amazon for just dollars that can be supplied to all agencies receiving payment. To also quickly check for proper size, a set of linked together rings all gauged to the sizes of all the known different sizes of coins throughout the world, much like that of a jeweler has to gauge the size of a ring finger.

The real problem is the argument of "how do we really know if a coin is not counterfeit". A receiving agent for the state could way it and give it a ping test any doubts. But to be curtain, it would take a $20.000 analyzer to be sure. The cost of such a device for every State, County, and City government agency that receives payment would be prohibitive. To answer this, an Assayer, an individual that is hired for the sole purpose of handling assets in the State's Treasury, will have all the tools required to insure the purity and value of each piece of bullion.

The receiving local agent will perform due diligence to ascertain that the coin appears to be genuine, place the bullion in a bag sealed with a label of the contents, and the contact information of the person that it came from. It would then be sent to the State's Assayer's office and return full credit for the contents of the container.

Section 5 gives protection against seizure laws, the right to acquire, own, and use gold and silver as money within the State of Missouri.

Section 6 paragraph 1: I think that the full description of sovereign coinage is missing, "all gold and silver coinage issued by the United States Government and/or the Federal Reserve Banks" because it is minted by one and issued by the other.

Paragraph 2 should be omitted or replaced because of the restrictive nature of requiring any legal tender coin to match the guidelines of 31 U.S. Code § 5112 - Denominations, specifications, and design of coins. There must be a way to construct language that will use the U.S. minted coin as a textual reference rather a literal physical reference.

Sentence 2 of paragraph 2 must be a brain fart error because it is requiring that all such coins bare a physical value on the coin. The description in sentence 2 needs to be changed to "but shall not be required to indicate a value of the coin". Value will be determined by the current spot plus reasonable premium.

 

Also, one more thing. I do not see how you will fit Goldbacks or any other type of bullion currency into the bill as it reads now. This bill is only about coinage.


   
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(@kcrich13)
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@thomasj38 I can only find the term specie used twice. Both times on page one under 30.266. The term specie is not defined in this bill unless I missed it. I think it should be defined in this bill to avoid any confusion. Didn't we have this problem the last time?

 


   
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ThomasJ
(@thomasj38)
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I thought the same. Patrick assures me that the final draft will clarify those things considered as legal coinage and will include foil minted coinage such as Goldbacks as well as other state of the art minted coinage.


   
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ThomasJ
(@thomasj38)
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Joined: 1 year ago
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To all those that are here to peruse the final draft of the Gold and Silver Proposal, this turns out to be a previous draft and not the final. Please read it anyway and use it to base any comments or suggestions that you may have. All comments will be appreciated and paid attention to. In the mean time, we will post the final draft as soon as we can.


   
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Silver and Gold legal tender legislative draft for 2024 has been released!

5 Posts
3 Users
0 Reactions
1,225 Views
Patrick Holland
(@patholland)
Janitor Admin Registered
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 3
Topic starter  

Senator Eigel has released the draft for the new silver and gold as legal tender for the 2024 legislative season. You can view this legislation in it's entirety here. Let's start the discussion.


   
ReplyQuote
ThomasJ
(@thomasj38)
Member Admin
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 3
 

@patholland

My hat's off to Senator Eigel. This is a mammoth undertaking for such a short time.

30.266: It is stated "gold and silver coinage AND specie..." in the opening of this section. To be grammatically correct, it should read "gold and silver coinage, and specie...". It would then mean gold and silver in the form of a coin would be acceptable leaving it open to further definition as it is further down in this bill. Then, it states "specie" which is an ambiguous term in itself that is more defined by the preceding "gold and silver coinage" and leaves this one line statement much less ambiguous and redundant rather than leaving the definition of acceptability open to interpretation meaning other forms beyond that of like kind. The problem with the use of the word specie is it's not non-ambiguous by itself and can just as well preclude any other form of bullion for use as currency and not necessarily leave the interpretation open to inclusion of other forms.

I assume that the word specie is being used as an unspoken attempt to include other forms outside of coinage such as Goldbacks, smaller gold and silver bars, and such. The problem is that this word means coinage of like kind and the rest are not defined as coins.

resource of definition: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/specie

143.121, sub-section 3, paragraph 14: This removes any capital gains tax on pacifically silver and gold from State income tax liability.

I assume the underlined text is that of added wording to the States Constitution and the redacted lines of text are to be removed and replaced with the underlined text?

408.010, paragraph 2: This is where we can expect to get the opposition's biggest argument of how the state will protect itself from fraudulent coins. Scales can e obtained from amazon for just dollars that can be supplied to all agencies receiving payment. To also quickly check for proper size, a set of linked together rings all gauged to the sizes of all the known different sizes of coins throughout the world, much like that of a jeweler has to gauge the size of a ring finger.

The real problem is the argument of "how do we really know if a coin is not counterfeit". A receiving agent for the state could way it and give it a ping test any doubts. But to be curtain, it would take a $20.000 analyzer to be sure. The cost of such a device for every State, County, and City government agency that receives payment would be prohibitive. To answer this, an Assayer, an individual that is hired for the sole purpose of handling assets in the State's Treasury, will have all the tools required to insure the purity and value of each piece of bullion.

The receiving local agent will perform due diligence to ascertain that the coin appears to be genuine, place the bullion in a bag sealed with a label of the contents, and the contact information of the person that it came from. It would then be sent to the State's Assayer's office and return full credit for the contents of the container.

Section 5 gives protection against seizure laws, the right to acquire, own, and use gold and silver as money within the State of Missouri.

Section 6 paragraph 1: I think that the full description of sovereign coinage is missing, "all gold and silver coinage issued by the United States Government and/or the Federal Reserve Banks" because it is minted by one and issued by the other.

Paragraph 2 should be omitted or replaced because of the restrictive nature of requiring any legal tender coin to match the guidelines of 31 U.S. Code § 5112 - Denominations, specifications, and design of coins. There must be a way to construct language that will use the U.S. minted coin as a textual reference rather a literal physical reference.

Sentence 2 of paragraph 2 must be a brain fart error because it is requiring that all such coins bare a physical value on the coin. The description in sentence 2 needs to be changed to "but shall not be required to indicate a value of the coin". Value will be determined by the current spot plus reasonable premium.

 

Also, one more thing. I do not see how you will fit Goldbacks or any other type of bullion currency into the bill as it reads now. This bill is only about coinage.


   
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(@kcrich13)
Member Registered
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 1
 

@thomasj38 I can only find the term specie used twice. Both times on page one under 30.266. The term specie is not defined in this bill unless I missed it. I think it should be defined in this bill to avoid any confusion. Didn't we have this problem the last time?

 


   
ReplyQuote
ThomasJ
(@thomasj38)
Member Admin
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 3
 

I thought the same. Patrick assures me that the final draft will clarify those things considered as legal coinage and will include foil minted coinage such as Goldbacks as well as other state of the art minted coinage.


   
ReplyQuote
ThomasJ
(@thomasj38)
Member Admin
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 3
 

To all those that are here to peruse the final draft of the Gold and Silver Proposal, this turns out to be a previous draft and not the final. Please read it anyway and use it to base any comments or suggestions that you may have. All comments will be appreciated and paid attention to. In the mean time, we will post the final draft as soon as we can.


   
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